I'm a native of Virginia. I went to Christiansburg High School and I was in the business program there, and they had a co-op program where in my senior year I could work half a day and come and work half a day. I got a job in the Department of Entomology as a little probably clerk, typist or whatever it was back then. And once I graduated, I got passed my steno test so I could become a clerk steno B back then. Don't even remember stenography anymore it's been so long.  After that, I got my first salary job in special education in the College of Education on grant. And then from there I got my first full time salary job in 1980 in the Department of Biology, I got married the next week. So I can remember my anniversary date, and my wedding date was the same time. So I actually started in 1978, my first full time was 1980.