Well, I went to college here. So I came to Virginia Tech in 1977 because a lot of my high school friends were here and I knew if I came to and got a job at Virginia Tech, I could take classes. And so I did eventually. So I ended up getting into Aerospace and Ocean Engineering. And I took a year off of work to go through the kind of first and second year of engineering. So when I came off of the educational leave, I was... went into systems programming which was a pretty big lift at the time. So I was sort of in there as an apprentice. I think that's the best way to state that. Anyway, needless to say, school pretty much slacked off after that. So I ended up not getting a degree in aerospace and ocean engineering, but rather in Interdisciplinary Studies which was a combination of my engineering core courses and language and arts. But about 10 years later I got my undergraduate degree. Then I started taking graduate classes out of the School of International and Public Affairs and got a master's degree. And I also got a, I guess it's a postgraduate certificate. And that was in policy of science and technology.