I've been able to shift focus to different things over time. I kind of developed this orientation towards a sort of a macro strategic focus which I kind of enjoy sort of interspersing that. and the detailed project work you know where you get down into something really technical and figure out how to get this to work and what might be a better way to do it. So I started out in administrative accounting, and then later on, I think it might have been around 81 or so, I moved to the Administrative Systems DBA group. And then I moved from there into CNS. It was an opportunity to get involved in some special projects. When I say special, I just mean they're projects, there were non-routine operational things. Previously, I had pretty much been working with operational things. So I worked with CMS or CNS, various things. The Blacksburg Electronic Village came out of that work, and then as BEV wind - wound down, I started working with Brenda van Gelder in this, it was called the CTSSR Group. So, and then subsequently, I, uh, spun off completely to work just with Seth Peery's Enterprise GIS Group. So, just in terms of role at each, uh, thing. I mean, I started out, it was all pretty much what you call maintenance programming with accounting. Where you were just adapting existing things in response to operational needs as they emerged or to try to improve just the way things work so they work better. So, I mean, for instance, when I first started, I literally was hauling trays of cards out of these these long filing cabinets with trays of like 2000 cards or so, 2,500, something downstairs to the, we were right upstairs in the machinery, and I'd haul them down the stairs and hand them in at the window and they'd run them through the card reader and I was putting them into partition datasets on in online storage. Online, meaning they were in the computing center. You forget about interconnecting computing, This is none of that existed at this point. What I was doing there was making it possible that we could run programs or compile things whatever by simply submitting three or four cards which referenced the thing that was on disk instead of reading, They had, I mean, literally people would like, oh, we have this, we got to run this report, it's 1,000 cards we're [laughs] putting in the window, and they're compiling it and running it all at the same time in some cases. I mean, I had been in CS and using, um, they had evolved to some pretty sophisticated languages. The accounting office was all COBOL which is an extremely effective language for what it was designed for. But there's concepts that I had become accustomed to like, uh,  modularization, where you have code that you put in a library and then multiple programs can reference it so that you'd only have to change things in one place instead of 23.  Dynamic loading so that you don't have to rebuild every program. every time you change one of the subcomponents, it automatically uses the new library. All this stuff is just, I mean, of course, that's automatic. that's the way it works. That's not the way it was then. So I worked with a lot of those kinds of things. We progress from handing cards in the window to, uh, managing things through the VM OS. I think they might have called it time sharing, but basically it was a virtual, it was an interactive terminal, uh, that you could use which was running on the mainframe. And it was structured so it looked like you had your own little computer was the concept with a local disk and whatever. It didn't look like a PC. In the DBA group, when I moved over to that, I basically improved a number of operational kinds of things like, um, storage allocation management. It's like the typical scenario was that somebody would run in the door with their hair on fire and it's like "We got to do student grades, we're out of space!", you know, which is fine if you've got a place [laughs] for them to put their stuff, but you're doing things in a,  in a crisis mode. So, you know, starting to try to paste things out to let's make sure we have enough space for the next two years. And then we're gonna, in18 months, we'll review where things are at. And you know making some of the data dictionary tools easier to use. There was a big problem in just keeping track of, well, what data do we have in all the databases and what are the field definitions and where's the origin of the data, where does it come from, where does it go? And all this was managed with what they called at the time, data dictionary tools. I mean and this goes back to your archiving and curation skills. If you don't know those things really well, you are in big trouble, especially these days, where the amount and complexity of data is probably increasing exponentially.