I started teaching a graduate level cybersecurity class for ECE in 98 because they wanted something like that. But everybody at that time, we were teaching computer security, it was crypto, not what everybody looks at now. So 98 was that  and Erv was the one that asked me if I would, I could teach a class, and I said, yeah, but it's going to be, it takes a lot of time to build a course and I don't have that time, and Erv said we'll make this a work project so you know, it'll part of your job description there to build this class for that. So you know that type of management support, the type, it was good timing all the way around. So from the class that I taught, that's where, you know, now BIT's got classes Hume Center got pooled in, you know, Tech, I got a CAE and all that type of stuff, in 2004 when it was, you know, still in the fairly new stages. A lot of universities at that time had that designation. But there were maybe only two or three schools that were doing any type of hands-on classes. Georgia Tech was one and SUNY Albany was another. So, you know, as far as cybersecurity education goes, that was a big deal. The teaching side of it was in 98, the department head of ECE at the time, they had a demand for hands-on cybersecurity classes from the Northern Virginia campuses, for the graduate classes. And so he said, yeah, we'll do it. And then he came down here and he said, well, who knows how to teach this class? And Joe Trott knew that SANS had started teaching cybersecurity classes in that era. And he said, well, that I was teaching some classes, so why not get me to do it? And that's where I said, well, yeah, I'll gladly do it, but I don't have a lot of time. And then that's what Erv said, well, and this is one of those lucky things that I think Erv had been gotten beaten up at a meeting by the academic side saying you're not doing anything to support us. And then ECE comes in and says, hey, can we get some help to teach this class? And then that class, we became one of the core classes now for the cybersecurity minor that's out there and I mean, you know the lab and that's part of where we why we created the lab. And the lab was just an area where we could build our own open source tools. And then Erv came to us and said, can you open this up for cybersecurity research? And said, I don't see any reason why not. You said, I'd be nice to get some funding for some grad students and he said, well, I can arrange that. We had a couple of GRA positions, and so far we've graduated 14 Ph.D.s and 15 master students, and gotten three patents out of the research they did.